RE: [alfa] Re: Ferrari 1976 308 GT 4

["Jeff Greenfield" <alfaguy@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Ok, I've got to squelch some of what is written below regarding the Ferrari
308 GT4, 308's and 328s. This is coming from someone who owns a 308QV, that
I've owned for close to 5 years now, put on average 5,000 miles a year on
it, and do all my own maintenance and repair work.

These cars are not that hard to work on. The only difference between working
on one of the above mentioned Ferraris and an Alfa, is that it may require a
bit more time as access to some things is a bit more limited, and a lot of
patience is required. Quite honestly though, it is not much harder than
working on a 164. (in fact I'd rather work on a 308 over a 164 any day and I
are a professional)

Yes, parts are expensive. New water pumps are probably somewhere between
$600.00 and $1000.00 depending on who and where you call. However, unless
they have spun the bearing and damaged the housing, they can be easily
rebuilt at home for $200.00 or less.

The engine does not need to come out of any of the 308 series cars
(excluding the 348 and Mondial T, but we are not discussing those models)
for most things. Timing belts, water pump, clutch can all be done with the
engine in the car. If you have to pull the front head, then yes the engine
has to come out. (But isn't this the case with the rear head on a 164?)
Transmission work such as synchros will require engine removal as well.
Pretty much everything else can be done with the engine in the car. I've
done the timing belts twice now in my car, and adjusted the valves once. (I
checked them with the second timing belt change and they were still where I
had put them previously). The only reason for the second belt change was I
was in there anyway to fix an oil leak, so for the cost of the belts it was
worth throwing them in although they did not need to be changed at the time.

Timing belts are relatively easy to do. If you can do a timing belt on a V6
Alfa, you can do them in the Ferrari. The hardest part is you either need to
remove the A/C compressor, or the RS gas tank to change the front belt. (I
find it easier to remove the A/C compressor, but others feel differently).
The belts are about 20 - 25 bucks each (there are two) and if you've never
done it before it would probably take you at most a weekend. Unless you
start doing other things while you are there ...

Replacing the timing belts every 15,000 miles is probably overkill on a car
that is used regularly. In most cases it is more of a time issue with these
cars as they are not used that often. The consensus is every 5 years
regardless of mileage, but this too may be overkill. Quite honestly, I don't
think anyone really knows and most dealers and independents have their
customers believe that this is the case as it is a real money maker for the
shop.

Like anything else, buy the best example that you can afford. When
considering a Ferrari a pre-purchase inspection by an objective third party
familiar with the model in question is money very well spent. Service
records also count for a lot towards getting a car with a known history.

Buying the wrong car at what seems like the right price can easily be way
more costly than spending more initially for the right car.

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-alfa@domain.elided [mailto:owner-alfa@domain.elided] On Behalf Of
George Graves
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 6:30 PM
To: alfa@domain.elided
Subject: [alfa] Re: Ferrari 1976 308 GT 4

It's true. Many Seventies vintage Ferraris are trucks. Fast trucks, fun
trucks, but trucks nonetheless. I too was about to purchase a 308GT4
and likely would have lived with the heavy controls. After all, the car
was meant to be driven fast, not slow. The 308GT4 is one of the best
handling cars Ferrari ever built. It is light, small, real tossable -
sort of like a 2 + 2 Fiat X1/9 with balls. What put me off was the
maintenance costs. New cam belts every 15,000 miles at a cost of about
$3000 to change them (engine has to come out) is oft-putting in the
extreme. My GTV-6 is faster (0-60 in about 6.0 seconds - of course,
it's not stock) and the engine sounds better and I only have to replace
the belt every 30,000 miles and when changing both belt and water pump
at 30,000 miles, the total cost is only in the neighborhood of about
$400. The 308 GT4 water pump alone costs $800 to buy and you still have
to take the engine out of the car to put it in! Of course an Alfa is
not a Ferrari, but I think overall, that my GTV-6 is certanly as well
designed and as well made as Ferraris of the same era, but I HAVE had
to resign myself to not owning a prancing horse. Also most 308 GT4s
that I have run across are victims of their own affordability. Because
this model is one of the "unloved" Ferraris at the moment, one can get
into them very cheaply (you can spend more for a perfect Alfa GTV and
certainly for a decent GTA.). This tempts those without the means  to
try to fulfill a lifelong dream and buy one. Once they do, and realize
what upkeep is on these cars, the whole enterprise becomes an exercise
in deferred maintenance. Often these cars need everything when changing
hands (which they seem to do often), and the bill for everything ain't
pretty.

If you truly must have a 308 (either a 4-seater or a two) or a 328, for
that matter, make sure that when you buy the car, you have a spare
$20,000 AT LEAST to pour into it right away. If it doesn't eat all that
$20K, consider yourself lucky, put the excess in the bank under the
car's own account and add to it when you can. You will need at least
$7000 every year for as long as you own the car to do right by it. A
harsh reality, but reality nonetheless. Ferraris are built for the
rich, the rich don't care that much about $6000 service bills.

George Graves
'86 GTV-6 3.0 'S'



On May 20, 2004, at 10:42 AM, alfa-digest wrote:

> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 10:33:59 -0500
> From: "Thomas Guadagni" <Thomas.Guadagni@domain.elided>
> Subject: [alfa] Ferrari  1976 308 GT 4
>
> I finally had the chance to move into a ferrari after owning a few
> Alfa's,
> but I was quite dissapointed with the test drive.  The clutch,
> steering, and
> shifter are all require a lot of force and the car is pain to drive
> around
> town with its low ground clearance.  The performance is terrible (R&T
> 0-60 7.3
> seconds) and seemed much worse than advertised.  Nice looking car but
> with the
> high priced service and parts its  probably more trouble than its
> worth  even
> at todays depressed prices.  Have others had similiar experiences with
> the
> other Italian car?
> Tom Guadagni
> Calif.
> Only Alfa pieces currently
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