[alfa] Re: alfa-digest V10 #252

[George Graves <gmgraves@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Well, My two-cents worth is that most GTV-6 engines don't really need a 
full rebuild. The bottom ends of these puppies are virtually 
indestructible and probably are good for 300-350,000 miles, but check 
for oil consumption (a good Alfa V-6 engine uses very little oil), and 
if in doubt of the shape of the bottom end, go ahead and rebuild it. 
The tops are a different story. Alfa GTV-6 camshaft lobes wear more 
than most, and when they get the surface hardening worn off of them, 
they start to work on the tappet buckets of the intake valves as well 
and eventually wear a channel in them. This wear pattern is 
characterized by a "clickety-click" sound when when the engine is 
idling and usually affects the left-rear cylinder first (don't ask me 
why). So, if you're going to do a head rebuild, I suggest that you 
replace the stock camshafts with 164 'S' cams (since you're gonna 
replace them anyway). They're the same price (at least they are here in 
the States) as stock, and even though designed for the 3-liter 12-valve 
version of the engine, will work well in the 2.5 liter. They'll be good 
for a few extra "free" horses too, never a bad thing (IMHO). Also, 
replace the valves. Use aftermarket, and skip the factory sodium-filled 
exhaust valves. The sodium-filled bit sounds exotic, but they're not as 
good as modern, solid valves. If you want to really wake-up the 
potential performance in your GTV-6, replace all the fuel injectors 
with higher-flow injectors. You should check the injectors anyway 
because they tend to get clogged as the miles pile-up. swapping them 
out for new is not a bad idea.

http://www.oldebottles.com/italiancarspage5.htm

The Stage Two injectors mentioned on this site can be sourced from 
these folks or from Bosch. I've been told that they are the injectors 
used on the BMW 6-series from the mid-eighties. Not 100% sure of this 
however, they could just as easily be the injectors used in the later 
24-valve Alfa engines, especially the ones for the 3-liter, four cam 
unit.

Finish the whole thing off with a pair of new, single-piece head 
gaskets, and don't forget to replace the timing belt, the water pump, 
and the belt tensioner while you are there. Also, take a look at the 
oil-pump and check it for wear. If the pump-gear has seriously rounded 
teeth, replace it. The teeth should have a nice square shoulder on 
them.

Other than porting, relieving and gas-flow testing, tubular tuned 
headers, a fre-flow exhaust, and a better ECU, that's about all I would 
do to a stock GTV-6 engine in the <150,000 mile range (which most seem 
to be). If you do decide to rebuild the bottom-end, check out the 2.7 
liter or even the 3.3 liter overbore piston and liner kits available 
from England. Since these drop-in directly into the block with no 
modification, they are no more difficult to fit than are a new set of 
standard piston/liners, but the improvement in performance will be 
immediate and impressive.

If you do the work yourself, and don't do the bottom-end, the parts 
will cost you about NZ$4000 add another NZ$2500 if you replace pistons 
and liners and main and rod bearings and the oil-pump. This estimate is 
based on US prices and might be totally off the mark for your country.

I would suspect that for this kind of money one could find a low-milage 
Milano Verde (Alfa 75 3.0 liter Sedan) engine and just do a swap. But 
since Alfas are still sold there you might even be able to get a post 
1996 3.0 liter 4-cam 24-valve engine out of a late 164 or a wrecked 
3-liter coupe /Spider or even a 156/166, and convert it to 
front-engine. rear-drive. I've seen it done over here with the first 
generation 164 24-valve 164 engine and it works remarkably well, I just 
wouldn't recommend the pre-1996 24-valve engine because of the timing 
belt path issues that the 1996 redesign fixed. Actually since you NZers 
drive on the "wrong" side of the road, such a swap becomes easier 
because the brake booster canister won't cover up the oil cap on the 
front cam cover when the lump is rotated 90 degrees to drive the rear 
wheels as it's on the right-hand side of the firewall on an RHD model 
and not the left as it is here.

George Graves
'86 GTV-6 3.0 'S'




On Jul 30, 2004, at 3:33 PM, alfa-digest wrote:

>
> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 16:09:46 +1200
> From: "Bourke, Quentin" <Quentin.Bourke@domain.elided>
> Subject: [alfa] Pros and cons for a GTV6 (NZ)
>
> Hi
>
> I would be interested in hearing pros and cons for rebuilding an 
> engine for a
> 1985 GTV6. Likely cost for rebuilding the engine places it smack bang 
> in the
> crosshairs for getting shot of it.
>
> Pros as I see it is I maintain the car on the road. Even for the cost 
> of a
> rebuild I would find it very hard to find another model of car that 
> matches up
> to the GTV6 in terms of pedigree and classic status. The general 
> condition of
> the car otherwise is quite good eg went through a warrant in May 
> without any
> questions. I've attended to the usual rust problems along the way so 
> there are
> no real issues there. The clutch as well as the brake and clutch master
> cylinders have been attended to within the last 3 years.
>
> Cons are the large $ and the fact that the car is getting on. Even 
> with a
> rebuild I'll still face the multitudinous niggles that go with using a 
> 20 year
> old car with 260k kms on the clock.
>
> Also, what is the going price for a GTV6 in NZ these days?, ball park 
> figures
> are fine.
>
> Appreciate any and all comments
>
> thanks
>
> Quentin
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