Re: [alfa] Re: Air conditioning question (not Alfa specific)

[bearbvd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Greg Hermann)]

At 11:08 PM 8/3/04, Richard Welty wrote:
>On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 19:45:02 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Sonny <maxid@domain.elided>
>wrote:
>> Also an A/C shop here informed me that the fittings used for non-R-12,
>> non-R-134a refrigerants are not standardized and I would have a hard time
>> finding someone who would work on my system if I went with another
>> refrigerant.

The bureaucrats who write the rules (based on laws) on this are at LEAST as
bad a bunch of ninnies as the CARB idiots are.

R-12 is tremendously more effective as a refrigerant than R-134a.

There is a mixture of propane and (I believe) ISO-butane, again I  BELIEVE,
67/33 %, respectively, which makes a perfect drop-in replacement for R-12,
which the above referred to ninnies have made difficult/incredibly
expensive to get.

If one is using a couple of pounds of a flammable refrigerant in a
vehicle's AC system, how does this significantly affect safety, when the
vehicle is already packing around tens of pounds of RATHER flammable fuel
(in a much less stoutly constructed system) ???? (Compare a fuel hose to an
AC hose some time !!)

A system gets discharged (accidentally, of course) if a fitting is loosened
(or a line damaged) ACCIDENTALLY. It's awfully hard to prove intent,
especially when nobody's watching !!! Once the 'integrity' of a system is
restored (after an accident) , applying a vacuum pump to the system will
take care of the rest.

If one has a set of gauges, test hoses to fit WHATEVER fittings are readily
available--

The whole thing about the 'new' freons is probably even MORE comical than
the scare mongering that DuPont put out about ammonia (which is about the
BEST refrigerant there IS) when they developed the first freon (R-12) !!!!
Now they are even calling NH3 'poisonous' --presumably because a number of
knowedgeable folks suggested going back to ammonia when the greenies
decided R-12 was a bad thing !!! Yeah, right---something that we
manufacture IN OUR OWN BODIES is a POISON !!!

Step right up folks, plenty more where these came from !!!

The reality of all this BS is that DuPont and Allied Signal lost control
over their little cartel for making R-12 and R-22, and needed to DO
something to help their bottom lines . Thus, they made it clear to many of
the usual suspects that continued flow of campaign contributions depended
on appropriate actions being taken--in the name of environmentalism, of
COURSE !!!

Greg
>
>i don't think this is quite right.
>
>in those markets where alternative refrigerants are permitted, apparently
>you are required to use R-134a type fittings. so to be legal with a hydrocarbon
>based refrigerant, you'd need to convert your R-12 system to use the R-134a
>fittings first. as it happens, these are readily available from chain autoparts
>stores. the main issues then are
>
>1) whether you are concerned about the potential hazards (i think that the
>hazards of hydrocarbon based refrigerants are overstated, myself), and
>whether they are actually legal in the state where you live.
>
>2) if your system still has any of its old charge left, you need a
>professional to take care of removing it properly.
>
>3) whether you feel up to DIY or else whether you can find a professional
>to handle it for you.
>
>> Now, I would like to hear from anyone who has been recommended to go with an
>> alternative refrigerant by a specialized A/C shop.
>
>quite frankly, they make more money if they do a full up 134a conversion. that
>was the main complaint back during the switchover; HVAC shops allegedly
>pushed for 134a because of the profit potential.
>
>richard
>--
>Richard Welty                                         rwelty@domain.elided
>Averill Park Networking                                         518-573-7592
>    Java, PHP, PostgreSQL, Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security
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