Re: Trangle Springs

[Kim Sol <kimsol@domain.elided>]

Had a private request for information, and thought my experiences might be useful:

"Kevin, our Navistar dealer recommended using springs as opposed to lengthened
shackles to achieve the lift on a Scout. So we tried both, using extended
shackles on a 79 Scout, and the Triangle Springs on the 1980 Scout.  The 79 had
normal "Scout Steer" before the lift, and wasn't much worse after the shackles
were added.  The 1980, because the axles had added camber that year, steered
very well prior to the lift. It WAS the best driving Scout I've ever been in.

The Triangle Springs are tough springs.  Our local UHaul dealer let me use his
shop to put the springs on.  I needed the air wrenches, definitely, and a
couple of good crowbars to get the springs seated.  Took about eight hours.
Some disadvantages with the Triangle Springs:
1)   The Scout steers about as well as the '79 does now; that is, steering was
adversely affected even though camber still measures 1 degree positive on each
side.
2)   The Triangle Springs lift more in the rear than the front by about an inch
and a half.  Giddumup Scout says they are designed that way so that when you
add a load, the Scout will flatten out.  I put a ton of ceramic tile in the
back, and it did finally ride level.  So, to get the Scout to sit level all the
time, I had to buy heavy duty extended front Shackles from Scout Madness.  They
are really well built, and after adding those on the front, the Scout finally
sits even without a ton of stuff in back.
3)   The older springs give a pretty good articulation.  The Triangle Springs
(and any new lift spring) because of the higher rigidity to get the lift, lose
a lot in articulation.  Our 79 Scout, with old springs but long shackles, has
much better axle articulation.
4)   I put a new dropped pitman arm in, from Skyjacker, and lost a lot in
turning radius.  The dropped pitman arms are actually shorter from the center
of the steering gear pivot to the center of the tie rod assembly, and this
results in shorter travel for the tie rod through the radius of the steering
gear.  Result: I had the turning radius of a Suburban.  I checked with our
Firestone dealer and he looked it over and said that there wasn't a need for a
dropped pitman arm, and so we put the old one back on.  Aaahhhh... can turn in
those tight areas again.
5)   Brakes hoses and all other accessories were fine; no replacements needed.
6)   The Triangle Springs DONOT come with longer U Bolts, and after getting
everything reassembled in the shop; discovered I had to run out and find some
longer U Bolts that would fit. The recessed UBolt plates might compensate for
that though without relacing the U Bolts.  I used just standard plates before
and after.
7)   Used the shocks recommended by Giddum Up Scout; seems like they were RS
9000 or something like that.
8)   Can now run 33s but am currently running 31s.

If I had it to do all over again, I would probably add a body lift rather than
spring arch to gain the lift that makes Scouts look 100% better.  I like a
stiff ride, so the springs don't bother me from that standpoint, but it is
definitely a stiffer ride.  I'm not sure if there is a 4" body lift, but a 3"
body lift and a 2" spring conversion might give a good heighth without too much
sacrifice in road handling; while preserving more axle articulation.  I should
note, our Firestone dealer thinks that the handling characteristics of the
1980 Scout were probably not all that much affected by the spring lift; His
alignment specs and mechanical inspection shows everything pointing to good
road handling.  But, he says that the bigger tires that go along with the
conversions usually account for most of the complaints about the increased
sense of instability because bigger tires simply require more effort to keep
going in the right direction, especially with sport (smaller) steering wheels.
However, when I put on my snow tires, which are somewhat smaller, I don't feel
that much improvement in the steering, so I am still blaming the springs to
some extent."