[alfa] Re: Ferrari 308GT4 vs. Alfa Romeo...

[George Graves <gmgraves@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Yep. Can do.

The 308 is faster and quicker and has more room in it. It also handles 
better. The Montreal has lighter controls, shifts better and is 
definitely prettier - by a long shot - and looks more exotic. 
Maintenance costs are probably cheaper for the Montreal with a couple 
of caveats. The Montreal engine has chain-driven OHCs and the Ferrari's 
are belt driven. Ferrari recommends that the belts be changed every 
15,000 miles. The Montreal Cam chains are good for 75,000 Even though 
the chains are major surgery and not cheap, the engine on the 308 GT4 
will have had to come out of the car for that operation FIVE TIMES 
before the Montreal needs it's chain changed once. The Ferrari 308 GT4 
has Webber carburetors, and while fiddly, and somewhat fussy, anybody 
can learn to keep them reasonably adjusted. The Montreal, OTOH, has 
SPICA mechanical FI, essentially two of the 4-cylinder FI pumps 
together. Luckily, these have only ONE "logic section" shared by the 
two pump sections and the parts that tend to fail on these are in the 
Logic section - so thank your lucky stars there is only one for both 
banks. SPICA systems are not bad. On the contrary, they are very good, 
giving identical power to the pair of Weber 40DCOEs that overzealous 
enthusiasts often replaced the SPICA injection units with in Spiders 
and GTVs. Most SPICA problems are, in fact, caused more by anxious and 
ignorant hands than by any fault of the system. Keep away if you (or 
your mechanic) don't know what you are doing. The second caveat for the 
Montreal engine is the water pump. It's INSIDE the engine. "Say no 
more", as the Monty Python crew would say! The biggest caveat is 
probably parts availability. These cars were not officially imported 
into the USA, and I, for one, am surprised at how many actually made it 
to this side of the pond. Parts tend to be scarce (except for chassis 
bits - see below), with many trim and cabin pieces virtually 
unobtainable. If you are willing to wait, engine parts are available 
but many have to be sourced from Europe, the UK, mostly.

Chassis-wise, the Montreal is merely a 115 (115.64 to be exact). Same 
as a Spider, same as a USA Spec Berlina, a GTV, and a Jr. Zagato. Same 
suspension, steering, shocks, brakes, wheels etc. The V-8 isn't even 
that much heavier than the 4 to cause more understeer. Unfortunately, 
it's parts-bin origins make themselves apparent on the road. There is 
lots of body roll, a fair amount of understeer (but no more than any 
other 115) and the car is rather unsure of itself on rough surfaces. 
Using the Montreal's power advantage over its 4-cylinder cousins allows 
the driver to overcome the push and attain a more neutral attitude 
through the turns.

The problem with the Montreal is simply that the exotic look deserves a 
better chassis than it got and the engine should be more powerful than 
the mere 200 horsepower Alfa gave it. In reality, a stock GTV-6 will 
keep up with it accelerating through the gears in spite of being almost 
40 horsepower down on it, and probably outhandles it on a twisty road 
to boot. People buy these cars because they are GORGEOUS - the epitome 
on the front-engined, rear drive exoticar of the 1960's. The shape 
belongs on a Ferrari or a Maserati or a Lamborghini, and it's to Alfa 
Romeo's credit that they actually listened to the pleas of customers 
world-wide after the car debuted at the Montreal World's Fair in 1967 
and actually produced it. They built 3,925 of them in all between 1971 
and 1977 when the last one left the factory. And yes, I'd love to own 
one.

George Graves
'86 GTV-6 3.0 'S'


On May 20, 2004, at 1:14 PM, alfa-digest wrote:

> Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:36:23 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Joe Garcia <lacorsanostra@domain.elided>
> Subject: Re: [alfa] Ferrari  308GT4 vs. Alfa Romeo...
>
> I am wondering if anyone has seriously compared the Ferrari 308GT4 
> against the Alfa Romeo Montreal.
>
> I would think the Monty would hold up very well against the Ferrari.
>
> Discuss.
>
> - -Joe in SoFla
> 1984 GTV-6 Maratona
> ~22K miles
>
> Thomas Guadagni <Thomas.Guadagni@domain.elided> wrote:
> I finally had the chance to move into a ferrari after owning a few 
> Alfa's,
> but I was quite dissapointed with the test drive. The clutch, 
> steering, and
> shifter are all require a lot of force and the car is pain to drive 
> around
> town with its low ground clearance. The performance is terrible (R&T 
> 0-60 7.3
> seconds) and seemed much worse than advertised. Nice looking car but 
> with the
> high priced service and parts its probably more trouble than its worth 
> even
> at todays depressed prices. Have others had similiar experiences with 
> the
> other Italian car?
> Tom Guadagni
> Calif.
> Only Alfa pieces currently
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