Re: [alfa] Continue Saga... 24V starting issue...

[gwynnes1@xxxxxxxxxxx]

Sounds like the fuel pressure is leaking down - maybe a bad check valve. Hook up a pressure gauge to the fuel rail start the engine and observe while running, then shut down engine, leave thet gauge connected and look at it just before starting the engine the next time you want to use the car, . It should be very close to the operating pressure. Somewhere in the system (at the fuel pump or someplace else, there should be a check valve to retain pressure after shut down. I supose it could also be a leak in the pressure regulator that allows the presssure to fall.
Gwynne Spencer

-------------- Original message -------------- 

> OK, I am wondering if I am going crazy and chasing a "problem" which isn't 
> actually a problem and cannot be solved. Please share your perspectives on this 
> issue. 
> I own a 24V 164Q. It typically takes 3 to 6 seconds of cranking to get it to 
> start. Warm or cold, it behaves the same. 1 out of 10 times it fires up 
> instantly. It always runs perfect once started. 
> Is this normal starting for the 24valves? My father's 164S starts in an 
> instant. Should I expect the 24V to start slower? Is it inherent to the 24V 
> and the way Alfa has set it up? 
> I have been through the entire system. Literally. 
> No air leaks whatsoever. Have swapped out AFM, constant air motor, new OEM NGK 
> plugs, tested each coil individually (they each throw a spark about an inch 
> long!), swapped out ignition modules, ECU, new coolant temp sensor, checked all 
> relevant wires back to ECU for continuity. I had all injectors cleaned and 
> matched. I get power to the injectors the instant I turn the key. Same seems 
> to be true for ignition as well. The car has almost perfect emissions levels. 
> I have cleaned almost every fuse and contact in the system, replaced fuel pump 
> and motronic relays, checked fuel pressure, replaced fuel filter, put a shunt in 
> across the fuel pump (as a test) during start up to ensure the pump is running. 
> Have checked all cam timings, etc. Checked intake air sensor. Blah, blah, blah. 
> What could I be missing? Is this just the way these cars start? Sometimes it 
> will fire right up, but perhaps this is normal, and all conditions are perfect 
> at that moment). One thing I noticed is that the car disk calls for a pin 55 at 
> the ECU and notes it as an Ignition Ground. There is no such pin or wire on my 
> car. Perhaps nothing, but could be a floating ground if this really needed to 
> be present. 
> Again, the car always starts in no more than 6 seconds of cranking and is 
> usually helped by depressing the gas pedal. No fault codes. 
> 
> I have probed on this issue before, but now having changed everything but the 
> coil packs (which, again I tested and appear to be working perfectly and never 
> misfire during running). My only thought is that they may be arcing through the 
> boot during initial cranking and then finally firing across the plugs. 
> Thanks for listening... Any thoughts welcome. Especially the experiences of 
> those currently driving the 164 24 valves and whether theirs fire up instantly 
> all the time... 
> -- 
> Jason Hagen 
> Chicago, IL 
> '73 Spider 
> '95 164Q 
> '91 164S 
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